Women Who Inspire: Interview with Maria (Chapman) Long

This is the third in a series of interviews of women who inspire the strong female protagonists I favor when writing my novels. 

On meeting her, you would never guess that Maria is a Marine Corps Colonel. Sweet as sin on the outside, tough as nails on the inside, Maria is one of those people that any author would love to pluck from reality and drop straight into one of their novels.

Enjoy!

Maria (Chapman) Long graduated with a Bachelor of Science in English from the US Naval Academy and entered the US Marine Corps, reporting to The Basic School in Quantico, VA. Her Military Occupational Specialty is Cryptologic Intelligence and she served 9 years active duty before moving to the reserves. She holds a Masters in Business Administration from Boston University and a Masters in Education from Old Dominion University. She’s now in her 13^th year of reserve duty, holds the rank of Colonel (O-6), and is a Marine Air-Ground Task Force (MAGTF) Chief with the MAGTF Staff Training Program IMA (Reserve) Detachment.Maria lives with her husband and two children in Williamsburg, VA. 

AW: You're the first woman I've interviewed from our class who entered the Marine Corps following graduation. What was it like when you entered basic training in Quantico? Were you the only woman in your training platoon or were there others?

ML: At that time, women weren't integrated into the men’s platoons as they are now. In fact, I had to wait until they had collected enough women to form an all-women’s platoon, so I could begin my training.

AW: I’m surprised they separated you. Did you feel that was a good thing or a not-so-good thing?

ML: I didn't understand why we were separated. That segregation just drives home that belief that women are different—you know, that group over there. In my mind, it fosters an “us and them” mentality, rather than an integrated team mentality. At The Basic School, men and women both were learning how to be Marine Corps officers. Women had the same requirements for that basic knowledge, and we did what the guys did, for the most part, so I don’t know why we had to be separated into a different platoon to accomplish those things.

AW: How is it done now? Do they still put women in their own platoon?

ML: No, now it’s integrated. You might have one or two women in a male platoon, for example. It’s much better this way.

AW: Sort of like the Naval Academy where women were spread across all companies.

ML: Yeah, just like that. And you remember how much better that was in terms of getting to know the guys in our companies and all working together. It fosters a far better team environment and one of mutual respect, I think.

AW: You met your husband while you were both active duty, right?

ML: Yeah, this is a really romantic story! (laughs)

AW: Ok, let me have it!

ML: I was stationed at Parris Island as a Series Commander and my main purpose in that assignment was to ensure the Recruit Training Schedule was followed safely and appropriately. I was out on the PT field, dressed green on green [a Marine working uniform], and he just walked up and started talking to me. I just remember both of standing there dressed identically—all in green.

AW: Just so you know, the other women I’ve talked to that married guys in the military have similar “romantic” stories. There seems to be trend here!

ML: (Laughs) Yeah, but that was about it. He stayed in for five years and then left to pursue a job with military headhunters. He still does that today, by the way.

AW: You have so much crammed into your resume over the last 20+ years. Was there any tour more challenging than another?

ML: Of course they all had their own challenges, but I remember my time at Amphibious Warfare School. You had over 100 captains, of which only a handful were women. Initially, I felt a little out of my element. There was an infantry focus here and most of the guys had infantry experience, but my background was in intelligence. So we’d break into discussion groups of about 15 officers where I was the only woman. The guys were totally in their element, planning battlefield tactics, where to place artillery and how to arrange their units and such. But I think the men in my group were surprised because I came at problems with a different perspective. I would choose my moments, being careful when to add my input, but oftentimes, it led to a better plan. Believe it or not, I left as an honor graduate, which I never would have anticipated.

AW: That’s awesome! It sounds like your approach—the choosing-your-moments approach—helped you in this environment. I was curious if you've ever experienced times when guys weren't open to your opinions. 

ML:  I've never really had an ongoing difficult time with anyone. Although, there have definitely been times when I've felt that the person I’m dealing with doesn't respect me. In those cases, it’s hard because I know they aren't going to change their mind about women in that moment. I could sit there and speak all I want and give my opinions, but guys like that have already shut me down.

AW: What’s your approach to handling something like that—when they've tuned you out, so to speak?

ML: Well (laughs), kill ‘em with kindness! I stay pleasant. I prove that I can handle whatever I’m doing, and oh, by the way, do it pretty darn well. It’s the same old story about having to be twice as good, but you just can’t get in people’s faces about it.

Women Who Inspire: Interview with Catherine (McCann) Gillies

This is the second in a series of interviews of women who inspire the strong female protagonists I favor when writing my novels.

Cathy was notably the first female pilot to fly in any Marine Corps aviation squadron.

Catherine (McCann) Gillies graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Mathematics from the US Naval Academy and reported to flight school in Pensacola, FL. During her 20-year active duty career, she flew the H-3 and H-1 helicopters and was notably the first female pilot to fly in any Marine Corps aviation squadron. She holds two masters degrees and earned a Doctorate in Industrial and Organizational Psychology. She completed her career serving as the Executive Officer of Navy Operational Support Center (NOSC) Baltimore. Catherine retired with the rank of Lieutenant Commander (O-4) and is currently teaching in the Masters of Industrial/Organizational Psychology program for Argosy University Online. Catherine lives with her two daughters and one son in Annapolis, MD.

AW: You flew the H-3 helicopter off of five different aircraft carriers during your time at HC-16. How long were you aboard the carriers typically and what was your primary mission?

CG: We stayed aboard anywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months and provided SAR (Search and Rescue) support for jet pilots earning their carrier landing quals. We also helped with hurricane evacuations among other things.

AW: You and your roommate, a USNA ’88 grad, were the first two female pilots stationed aboard the aircraft carrier USS Kitty Hawk. Any sea stories you’d like to relate from that time?

CG: Well, they used to post Marine Corps guards outside our stateroom doors. This was the case on several of the aircraft carriers in the early days. It made my roommate and me uncomfortable because they could hear us moving around the room and talking, so we would order them to leave. Usually, their superiors would send them back, but after several days of back and forth and me reminding them that I outranked their boss, they would finally relent and leave us alone.

AW: You are featured in Linda Maloney’s book, Military Fly Moms. In it, you relate a story that happened on a different aircraft carrier when you called the ship’s weather forecasters for a weather briefing for your flight.

CG: (Laughs). Yeah, I called for a weather briefing, the sailor on the other end of the line laughed, asked me

how I had gotten his number and who had put me up to this. He then stated there were no women aboard the ship before hanging up on me! This was long before the days of cell phones, so I had to be on the ship to call him in his office!

AW: Any other funny carrier moments?

CG: I guess this wasn’t exactly funny for him, but a junior petty officer rounded a corner in the passageway near my stateroom on the Kitty Hawk and obviously wasn’t expecting to see a woman standing there. He just stared—gawking—and while his head was turned, ran straight into the bulkhead.

AW: I guess you were definitely a novelty! Which leads me to your time with HMT-303. You were the first female pilot to be stationed with a Marine Corps squadron, flying Hueys out of Camp Pendleton. I was lucky to have you as an instructor when I transitioned to H-1’s, but how were you received there?

CG: You know, I think you were the only other female I saw come through HMT-303 while I was there. But I would say it was more awkward than my time in Navy squadrons. I was just trying to fit in, but it seemed I was always getting a lot of attention with the base newspaper or the base TV station. It made me stand out when I just wanted to be one of the guys.

AW: Speaking of Marine Corps aviation, can you relate the story about chopping through the halls as a plebe and what you were not allowed to say? [As a plebe, or freshman, at the Naval Academy, you are not allowed to walk in the dormitory hallways—you have to jog, eyes straight ahead. It’s called chopping. And whenever you turn a corner, like to turn down a hallway from the main corridor, you must yell something motivational like “Go Navy!” or “Beat Army!”]

CG: My second classman stopped me in the hall because I had just yelled “Fly Marine Corps, Sir!” He informed me that I couldn't say that since women weren't allowed to fly in the Marine Corps. Ironic, huh?

AW: Love that story. So had you always wanted to go to the Naval Academy?

CG:  I did. I grew up in Annapolis and I was in middle school when the first women were admitted there. I thought how cool it would be to go to sea and travel the world.

AW: Had you always wanted to be a pilot?

CG: No, actually, I was intending to go Surface Warfare, but my roommates at Navy talked me out of it.

AW: Good decision?

CG: Yeah, I loved it, but I will say that throughout my career, I was usually the only female pilot in my squadron. I had the other female pilot in HC-16, and then you came and went at HMT-303, but most often, I was the only one. But, yeah, it was great.