Women Who Inspire: Interview with Hope Hall

For those of you new to my blog, I periodically interview my female Naval Academy classmates and post these interviews under the heading, Women Who Inspire. I favor a strong female protagonist, and I don't have to look far for inspiration.

One such person is this month's interviewee, Hope Hall. Prepare to be amazed. I've even included a bonus video at the end of the article. Your jaw will drop when you watch it, but it will remain firmly cemented to the floor when you remember that Hope is forty-seven years old. 

Hope Hall on the straps.

Hope Hall graduated from the United States Naval Academy with a Bachelor of Science in English and reported to Helicopter Anti-Submarine Squadron Light-40 (HSL-40) in Mayport, Florida, to serve as the legal officer, and later, the maintenance officer. After attending Intel School in Dam Neck, VA, she reported to Joint Intelligence Center Pacific (JICPAC) in Hawaii to serve as an all-source intelligence officer. Her final tour, rounding out seven years of active duty service, brought her back to Washington, D. C., as the navy’s HIV policy officer. She represented Team USA in the World Military Games in the sports of triathlon and cross country, and has competed five times at the Ironman Triathlon World Championships in Kona, Hawaii. Today, she works as a Senior Project Manager for Clark Construction. Hope is currently living in Seattle, WA. 


AW: I typically don’t begin these interviews by talking about outside interests or hobbies, but I just have to start with this first photo, because it’s so freakin’ gorgeous. Tell me about aerial arts and performing with the straps. When and where did you begin this pursuit?

HH: I started at a circus arts school in Los Angeles about seven years ago. I saw a man performing on the straps—typically it’s men on this apparatus—and he did these roll-ups, where you start in an iron cross position and roll yourself up the straps, and I said, “I want to do this!”

Hope Hall on straps
and Steve Thompson on trapeze

AW: You were a gymnast at the Naval Academy, so I imagine this background helped!

HH: Yeah, so much of that muscle memory was still there. I’ve always been challenged with flexibility, but my strength is my strength, so this apparatus plays to that. It requires great core strength, but it’s still beautiful and lyrical. This is a great outlet for my creativity and also a viable form of exercise. I can work on my strength and flexibility, stay in shape, and I get to perform, too.

AW: Tell me about this picture here, where you are performing with a trapeze artist.

HH: This was one of my favorite performances. You wouldn’t think the trapeze and the straps could mesh, but we created a story—a love story—did the choreography, picked the costumes, and the music. It’s all a learning process. When you’re creating the story, you’re thinking, How do I want to make people feel? Normally, I do performances with a “stronger” feel, but this one was quite gentle.
 
AW: These photos are just stunning. But you also do partner balance work.

Hope Hall with Rachel Tatum
demonstrating partner balance

HH: When trying out different things at the circus arts school, you find what works for your body type, and partner balancing works well for me. The partner I work with now is also a former gymnast. Like the straps, partner balancing plays to my strength.

AW: Speaking of strength, you’re an accomplished triathlete. You’ve completed thirteen Ironman triathlons and you’ve qualified for and competed in the Ironman World Championships in Kona, Hawaii, five times! We could probably spend your entire interview right here—since your interviewer is a triathlon coach—but suffice it to say, this is an amazing accomplishment. How did you get started in triathlon?

HH: When I was stationed in Hawaii, I won a bet with a fellow Academy grad who was a swimmer at Annapolis. For winning, he had to give me swim lessons, so I could survive my first sprint triathlon.

AW: Survive? You mean you couldn’t swim?

HH: No! I was an aqua-rock at the Academy. I barely made it through the swim tests there.

AW: From aqua-rock to Kona. Incredible. And trust me, as a swim coach, I know. So from the time you completed your first sprint tri to going to Kona, how long was that?

HH: I learned to swim and started racing in 1992. I went to Kona for the first time in 1995. So three years.

AW: And what other years did you compete there and did you have a favorite qualifying race?

HH: After the first time in 1995, I was there in 1996 and 1998. Then I took a little break from Ironman, but returned the sport in 2005 at Ironman Lake Placid and qualified there. That was my favorite qualifying race. And then I did Ironman Wisconsin in 2006, which qualifies you for Kona in the following year, so I did my last Kona in 2007.

AW: Are you doing triathlons now?

HH: Yes, but not like before. I think that triathlon . . . it can sort of take over your life. I wanted to take some time off. I wanted it to be fun again. Now, my favorite thing is doing relays with my sister—she’s a super-fast cyclist—so now it’s fun again. But also, triathlon doesn’t mix well with the aerial arts and partner balancing. They run counter to each other. Like if you’re running, your hamstrings get tight, or you’re bent over on a bike in the aero position, but then you have to go to the gym and you’re doing back handsprings. It’s just hard, especially as you get older.

Hope Hall (right) with her sisters,
Kate Borders (left) and Lindsey Mohle (center)

AW: [Easy to forget you’re speaking with a 47-year-old, when the conversation shifts to back handsprings. I take that back. I forgot she was 47 with the very first question and pretty much every question since.] So we need to hit on your naval career at some point in this interview, but even this included athletics, because you competed for Team USA in the World Military Games, both in the sports of triathlon and cross country!

HH: Yes, the first Games were in Rome in 1995 and it was pretty cool because you marched into a stadium, just like the Olympics, and there were probably thirty countries there. The whole idea of the military games is friendship through sport, so you had countries participating that weren’t friendly with the United States—like the Libyan military showed up—but we competed together on the field, so that was neat.

AW: Did they have the same sports in these Games that you’d find in the Olympics?

HH: They did, but they also focused on sports that showcased military skills. Like they had military pentathlon, which involved horses, and also sports with marksmanship. Remember Thomas Hellriegel? He was a German army officer and I got to be friends with him. He won the triathlon event for the Military Games that year, and then a month later, he took second place in Kona. That was my first Kona year, too, and I remember sitting with him the day after the race and he was absolutely stunned that he’d done that well. He was a total unknown at the time.

AW: That’s a very nice piece of triathlon lore there! Ok, so we really need to get to your military stuff. First, how would you characterize your time at the Naval Academy?

HH:  It took a while for me to look back on it fondly. After graduation, I stayed away. There were elements that were challenging. I knew I was gay, and I watched this girl, one of our classmates, go through this horrible thing. She was the smartest woman I’ve ever met and they kicked her out. I always lived in fear that I was next, so it was really hard. I pushed the Academy stuff away until our twentieth reunion. I went and it was a turning point. Everyone was so warm and they all knew about me and nobody cared. It was so refreshing to have this reaction after twenty years. I felt welcome again, but it wasn’t like that when I graduated.

AW: I’m an author and I should have the words for that, but it sickens me. That whole situation. That you lived in fear like that. I’m just glad you’re being treated better now.

HH: Yeah, I’ve reconnected with people. Thank heavens for Facebook! I’m even going to the Army-Navy game this weekend. So it’s much better, yes.

Hope Hall and her mom, Dina Hall in Italy

AW: You service selected General Unrestricted Line, and after you graduated, you went to a helicopter squadron first.

HH: I did. I was the legal officer for HSL-40 [Helicopter Anti-Submarine Squadron Light] and then I eventually moved into the maintenance department and became the maintenance officer.

AW: Were you mostly shore-based or did you go to sea during this tour?

HH: I was shore-based. This was a training squadron, so pilots fresh out of flight school would come here to learn how to fly the H-60. We had a lot of senior pilots in the squadron, who were instructors, and I got to go flying, too.

AW: And after this, you went to Hawaii for intelligence work? What did you do there?

HH: I was assigned to JICPAC [Joint Intelligence Center Pacific] as an all-source intelligence officer. This was a cool tour because it was joint, so all the services were represented here. Everyone had a different area of responsibility and we would brief the admirals and generals at Camp Smith every morning on developments or things that might be of interest to them in our area.

AW: And what was your area?

HH: I covered South Asia. Every night, you’d cull through all this information and pull up anything that could be of importance. Like there could have been a revolution in Fiji and you’d have to report on that. Or maybe you’d find something interesting in satellite imagery or pick up a good piece of human intelligence.

AW: Fascinating. I’ve sort of zipped around chronologically during this interview, and I’m going to fast forward once more. Today, you’re a Senior Project Manager for a construction company. Tell me about your most recently completed job.

HH: We just completed the structural retrofit of the Hall of Justice in downtown Los Angeles. After the Northridge earthquake in 1994, the building was shut down. It sat idle for almost twenty years. I mean, homeless people lived there. So we did a complete retrofit to make it earthquake tolerant. It took three years and 175 million dollars to bring it back to life, and the result is stunning.

AW: And now, you’ve moved to Seattle to take on the management of a new project.

HH: Yes, this is another three-year job. We’re expanding a VA facility to include a mental health center for research and outpatient care.

AW: I’m going to wrap up the interview by returning to the beginning of your naval career, to the application process for obtaining an appointment to the Naval Academy. I think our readers are going to get a chuckle out of who gave you your congressional nomination.

HH: Ha! It was Strom Thurmond. I’ll never forget when I received that phone call—I spoke with him personally—and he told me he was giving me a nomination. Probably rolling in his grave right now!

AW: Rolling over to applaud, hopefully!


Here's a video of Hope practicing on the straps!

The Great Hair Experiment

Midshipman 4/C Anne Hotis
(with short hair)
testing her lungs for something that
I'm sure was very important at the
time, but I can no longer recall.
  Parents' weekend -
summer of 1985.

Yesterday, the navy announced that it's putting a halt to short haircuts for new female recruits, aligning the navy with the other armed services, which do not require new female accessions to cut their hair.

I was surprised to hear this—surprised it hadn't happened sooner.

In the case of women at the Naval Academy, we had this hair discussion over twenty-five years ago.

When my female Naval Academy classmates and I donned uniforms for the first time in the summer of 1985, our hair, when worn loose, had to fall above the collar. If it was longer than that, you had to cut it.

That's me in the picture to the left, standing on my chair in King Hall—our dining hall at the Naval Academy—when I was a plebe, or first-year student, with my short hair.

I know. I 'm standing on a chair. My classmates in the background are doing it, too. For those of you who did not attend the Naval Academy, suffice it to say, that's the subject for another blog article.

In the mid-eighties, women in the fleet had been wearing their hair long hair for years (once out of boot camp, that is), putting it up in an appropriate manner when in uniform. But not midshipmen. We had to jump through hoops to adopt the same standards at the Naval Academy.

Today, when female midshipman are in uniform, they can simply pin their hair up if it falls below the collar mark. Easy. But what's easy now, wasn’t so easy then.

To that end, several of my classmates and I participated in a "ground breaking" experiment. In our first class, or senior, year, a select few were allowed to grow our hair long to test the theory that female midshipmen were in fact capable of pinning our hair up to meet military standards.

Midshipman 1/C Anne Hotis
(with long hair)
accepting her diploma from our Superintendent,
Rear Admiral Virgil L. Hill.

Fortunately for the female mids today, we were successful, and now they can wear their hair long when not in uniform.

I guess I'm just surprised it took so long for the navy to follow suit with regard to females entering boot camp.

But hair, Anne? Really? You're devoting blog space to this?

Yeah, I know. It's a small thing. But it was nice to be part of a change like that. Great, also, to finally see it come full circle.

Women Who Inspire: Interview with Cathy Masar

This month's interview is with a very recently retired navy captain, Cathy Masar. Join the navy, see the world! She's done that and then some.

Commander Cathy Masar - Change of Command, Boston
Military Entrance Processing Station, 2011

Cathy Masar graduated from the U. S. Naval Academy with a Bachelor of Science in Economics. During her 25-year career, she served in a wide variety of positions including Training Officer aboard USS Abraham Lincoln, Flag Lieutenant for the Sixth Fleet Commander, Facilitator and Instructor at the Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute, Commanding Officer of the Boston Military Entrance Processing Station, and Executive Director, Total Force Management for the U. S. Pacific Fleet. Cathy retired with the rank of Captain (O-6) and currently works at Amazon as a Senior Human Resources Business Partner. Cathy lives in Seattle, WA.
  
AW: You just retired after twenty-five years of active duty service as a navy captain. You’ve served all over the world, ashore and at sea, but it all started back in Orofino, Idaho! What led you to choose the Naval Academy?

CM: It was several things. I have three very smart older sisters, who were in college at the time, and it would have been difficult financially for my family to support four daughters in school at the same time. I also wanted to serve, to travel, to see the world, and to be challenged. And my dad was a captain in the navy reserve and served on active duty in Vietnam aboard a hospital ship.

AW: How would you characterize your time at the Naval Academy?

CM: It was hard—the first two years, especially. I struggled with time management. With all the stuff we had to do there—all those extracurricular activities—I was overwhelmed. But I did have help from a Class of ’88 grad, who helped me prioritize and get myself going. I learned to focus.

AW: Any bright spots?

USNA Economics majors visit the New York
Stock Exchange, 1989
L to R, Cathy Masar, Eric Cheney, Heather Purvis

CM: Oh, definitely. I loved Halloween at Navy. We got to dress up. No one was mean to each other. It was all fun. To this day, Halloween is my favorite holiday! My roommates were another bright spot, as we went through such a challenging experience together. And Father Pucciarelli [a marine corps chaplain stationed at USNA when we were there]. Remember him? I went to him for advice when I was having trouble and he pointed to my shoes and said I needed to shine my shoes. I thought, what does that have to do with anything? But then he went on to say that I needed to start with the small things, things that I could control, forget about the other stuff, and I would feel better about myself. He was right.

AW: You served as a General Unrestricted Line Officer and, reading through your bio, you did some really cool stuff—and a wide variety, at that. What was your favorite tour?

CM: My most professionally rewarding tour was aboard [the aircraft carrier], Abraham Lincoln. I served as the Training Officer, but I also qualified as Officer of the Deck, which means, I was qualified to drive the ship. So there I was, driving an aircraft carrier, with planes taking off and landing, and I was a human resources specialist! Crazy! I also earned my Surface Warfare qualification, while assigned there.

AW: Okay, so that’s cool as hell, I just want to say. In charge on the bridge on an aircraft carrier! So you were on the Lincoln in 2001. This was seven years after the ban was lifted for women serving aboard combatant ships. What was the atmosphere like onboard?

CM: I would say it was the tour that hardened me the most. Up to this point, I had done a lot of shore tours and staff tours and working with admirals, so I was used to a little more politeness. But on the ship, it was a lot more crude. You know, the foul language, sailors getting arrested for drug and alcohol related offenses. Just a very different world.

AW: Were there many women on the ship?

Cathy Masar, kindergarten.
This little girl would
grow up to drive an
aircraft carrier.

CW: I don’t remember how many, exactly. But I do remember that fifty percent of the Reactor Department officers were women. These were nuclear surface warfare officers, which is a tough job for anyone—a huge job on a carrier—and these girls were sharp. So heartening to see what they were doing.

AW: Going back to working with admirals, you served as the Flag Lieutenant for the Sixth Fleet Commander, based in Gaeta, Italy.

CM: I did. I served as the Protocol Officer and the Flag Lieutenant for Sixth Fleet for two years and before that, I was in Naples, Italy and served as Protocol Officer and Flag Secretary for the Commander, Fleet Air Mediterranean.

AW: Four years in Italy! Sweet!

CM: You asked about my favorite tour earlier and I said my time on the Abraham Lincoln was the most professionally rewarding. But my favorite place was Italy. And the tours here allowed me to travel all over Europe.

AW: Were you stationed on a ship there?

CM: The command ship for the Sixth Fleet Commander was the USS La Salle, a converted amphibious ship. So yes, I had berthing there, but I also had a place in Formia, which was incredibly beautiful—glass walls, statues—wonderful.
  
AW: Did you get underway much?

CM: At least once a month, we would cruise into the Adriatic Sea, and then the Med, of course. I visited Casablanca, Israel, Greece, Algeria, Turkey. . . . We flew into Monaco.. . . I even got to accompany the admiral to Macedonia. Just an amazing opportunity.

AW: I’d say! And what was that like, working with admirals?

CM: It was extremely interesting, because I worked so closely with them. It sort of de-mystified them. I learned how they worked, how they allotted their time. They were managing so much and I got to see how they pulled it all together.

AW: I could for sure get stalled here and spend the rest of the time talking about Italy, but I wanted to touch on your time—earlier in your career—at the Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute (DEOMI). You were stationed at Patrick Air Force Base for this?

CM: I was. This was in Cocoa Beach, Florida, and this tour was an absolute life changer for me. Prior to this, I had actually put in my resignation letter. This was only five years into my naval career. I was at the Recruit Training Command in Orlando and the base was being shut down, and I was getting a divorce, and I just didn’t have a plan. Someone mentioned an opportunity at DEOMI and wondered if I might be interested. I called my detailer and she said I could go there, so I pulled my resignation papers.

AW: I had no idea you’d submitted resignation papers at one point! So what did you do here?

CM: This command included all pay grades and all services and we had an intense four-month training period, where we received sensitized training on race relations, gender relations, and managing diversity. It was the one place in my whole career where sexist or racist comments were not tolerated- or even joked about. I mean, we were role models, so everyone respected each other and knew that the standard had to be high.

AW: As part of your job, you had to travel worldwide to instruct senior military leaders on diversity issues and the prevention of sexual harassment and racial discrimination. How were you received?

CM: Well . . . some groups were kind to us—we were assigned to mobile training teams—but some were hostile, too. But overall, I learned a great deal. How to get up in front of people, how do deliver unpopular training, and I learned valuable facilitation skills. That tour re-motivated and kick-started my career. I thought, after this, I’m ready to do anything.

AW: Any specific examples of a “hostile” crowd?

CM: I was surprised when we traveled to South Africa. This was just after the end of apartheid and I thought race relations would be the focus of our training. But we had a much harder time with women’s issues. That’s where we found the biases. Due to apartheid, they had already been addressing race issues, but not gender issues.

Captain Cathy Masar - Retirement Ceremony, Hawaii, 2014

AW: So interesting! Okay, so let’s fast forward to your last command, when you worked for the U. S. Pacific Fleet. You carried enormous responsibility here.

CM: Yes, I worked as N1 [Executive Director, Total Force Management], a job normally filled by a civilian, who is a flag officer equivalent. The woman in this position left, and I was asked to fill in for her, however, I stayed in this position for a full eighteen months!

AW: “Filling in” for  eighteen months. Classic. So what did this job entail and where were you stationed?

CM: I was in Hawaii for this tour and responsible for the manning of all ships in the Pacific Fleet and the human resources functions for over 130,000 military and civilian.

AW: That’s a big job by anyone’s standards!

CM: Definitely. But I had a great staff. Great support.

AW: And you retired from the navy after this?

CM: I did. Time to get back to family. And the timing was just right. I was ready.

AW: You work at Amazon now. How have you found the transition from military to civilian life?

CM: I had no idea what to expect and no time to prepare. I was so busy in my last job that when I retired, I was just suddenly out there. I networked through Linked In and that really helped, but job searching was a humbling experience.

AW: So you’ve been at Amazon how long now?

CM: Only a month. In fact, I haven’t had to work on the Friday after Thanksgiving in a long time (the military usually gives that day off), but I was working at Amazon yesterday, on Black Friday.

AW: Ha! Black Friday. At Amazon. Nothing like being thrown into the fire! So I guess your navy experience served you well here.

CM: It certainly did!

The Mom Contest

For years, my sisters and I have bantered about who is winning the "mom contest."

Of course, the playful digs are there:

Most stubborn like Mom? Me.

Most clinical like Mom? Again, me.

Who would rather have a tooth pulled before going shopping for clothes at the mall? My mom and I would hold hands at the dentist.

All of these things play out in good-natured fun, and yes, I am probably “winning” this “race.” But my mom and I share a lot more than stubbornness. One facet of our connectedness lies in the professional paths we chose—medicine for her, military aviation for me—both at times when women in these respective fields found themselves in the rather small minority.

She graduated from the University of Nebraska College of Medicine in 1955, a class comprising 80 men and 4 women. She had to apply three times to get in, and when she did, she wasn’t exactly met with balloons and confetti.

Her biochemistry professor bragged that the women in his class would flunk. He even sat them in the front row of his lecture hall—they had to sit side by side—so he “could keep an eye on them.”

Crotchety old medical school professors aside, my mom said she felt fortunate to have had so many World War II veterans in her class. They had come home from the war older and more grounded—you can imagine—so having a woman in their class was small potatoes. 

The picture of my mom above was taken in her physiology class in October 1953. She showed it to me for the first time a few weeks ago, and I had one of those hit-me-over-the-head-with-a-brick moments. One woman, surrounded by men, in an overwhelmingly male-dominated environment. Score another point for me in the mom contest.

Fast forward 44 years to my search and rescue squadron at Naval Air Station Fallon, NV. This photo represents the typical scenario I found myself in throughout my Naval career, and I suspect most of my female Naval Academy classmates have similar photos.

My parents received quite a shock when I told them I wanted to go to the Naval Academy. But in hindsight, sprinting down the unbeaten path wasn’t anything new in my family. This move had my mom’s DNA written all over it. Fortunately, she passed down a good dose of humor and inner fortitude to go with it.

Women Who Inspire: Interview with Maria (Chapman) Long

This is the third in a series of interviews of women who inspire the strong female protagonists I favor when writing my novels. 

On meeting her, you would never guess that Maria is a Marine Corps Colonel. Sweet as sin on the outside, tough as nails on the inside, Maria is one of those people that any author would love to pluck from reality and drop straight into one of their novels.

Enjoy!

Maria (Chapman) Long graduated with a Bachelor of Science in English from the US Naval Academy and entered the US Marine Corps, reporting to The Basic School in Quantico, VA. Her Military Occupational Specialty is Cryptologic Intelligence and she served 9 years active duty before moving to the reserves. She holds a Masters in Business Administration from Boston University and a Masters in Education from Old Dominion University. She’s now in her 13^th year of reserve duty, holds the rank of Colonel (O-6), and is a Marine Air-Ground Task Force (MAGTF) Chief with the MAGTF Staff Training Program IMA (Reserve) Detachment.Maria lives with her husband and two children in Williamsburg, VA. 

AW: You're the first woman I've interviewed from our class who entered the Marine Corps following graduation. What was it like when you entered basic training in Quantico? Were you the only woman in your training platoon or were there others?

ML: At that time, women weren't integrated into the men’s platoons as they are now. In fact, I had to wait until they had collected enough women to form an all-women’s platoon, so I could begin my training.

AW: I’m surprised they separated you. Did you feel that was a good thing or a not-so-good thing?

ML: I didn't understand why we were separated. That segregation just drives home that belief that women are different—you know, that group over there. In my mind, it fosters an “us and them” mentality, rather than an integrated team mentality. At The Basic School, men and women both were learning how to be Marine Corps officers. Women had the same requirements for that basic knowledge, and we did what the guys did, for the most part, so I don’t know why we had to be separated into a different platoon to accomplish those things.

AW: How is it done now? Do they still put women in their own platoon?

ML: No, now it’s integrated. You might have one or two women in a male platoon, for example. It’s much better this way.

AW: Sort of like the Naval Academy where women were spread across all companies.

ML: Yeah, just like that. And you remember how much better that was in terms of getting to know the guys in our companies and all working together. It fosters a far better team environment and one of mutual respect, I think.

AW: You met your husband while you were both active duty, right?

ML: Yeah, this is a really romantic story! (laughs)

AW: Ok, let me have it!

ML: I was stationed at Parris Island as a Series Commander and my main purpose in that assignment was to ensure the Recruit Training Schedule was followed safely and appropriately. I was out on the PT field, dressed green on green [a Marine working uniform], and he just walked up and started talking to me. I just remember both of standing there dressed identically—all in green.

AW: Just so you know, the other women I’ve talked to that married guys in the military have similar “romantic” stories. There seems to be trend here!

ML: (Laughs) Yeah, but that was about it. He stayed in for five years and then left to pursue a job with military headhunters. He still does that today, by the way.

AW: You have so much crammed into your resume over the last 20+ years. Was there any tour more challenging than another?

ML: Of course they all had their own challenges, but I remember my time at Amphibious Warfare School. You had over 100 captains, of which only a handful were women. Initially, I felt a little out of my element. There was an infantry focus here and most of the guys had infantry experience, but my background was in intelligence. So we’d break into discussion groups of about 15 officers where I was the only woman. The guys were totally in their element, planning battlefield tactics, where to place artillery and how to arrange their units and such. But I think the men in my group were surprised because I came at problems with a different perspective. I would choose my moments, being careful when to add my input, but oftentimes, it led to a better plan. Believe it or not, I left as an honor graduate, which I never would have anticipated.

AW: That’s awesome! It sounds like your approach—the choosing-your-moments approach—helped you in this environment. I was curious if you've ever experienced times when guys weren't open to your opinions. 

ML:  I've never really had an ongoing difficult time with anyone. Although, there have definitely been times when I've felt that the person I’m dealing with doesn't respect me. In those cases, it’s hard because I know they aren't going to change their mind about women in that moment. I could sit there and speak all I want and give my opinions, but guys like that have already shut me down.

AW: What’s your approach to handling something like that—when they've tuned you out, so to speak?

ML: Well (laughs), kill ‘em with kindness! I stay pleasant. I prove that I can handle whatever I’m doing, and oh, by the way, do it pretty darn well. It’s the same old story about having to be twice as good, but you just can’t get in people’s faces about it.

Women Who Inspire: Interview with Catherine (McCann) Gillies

This is the second in a series of interviews of women who inspire the strong female protagonists I favor when writing my novels.

Cathy was notably the first female pilot to fly in any Marine Corps aviation squadron.

Catherine (McCann) Gillies graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Mathematics from the US Naval Academy and reported to flight school in Pensacola, FL. During her 20-year active duty career, she flew the H-3 and H-1 helicopters and was notably the first female pilot to fly in any Marine Corps aviation squadron. She holds two masters degrees and earned a Doctorate in Industrial and Organizational Psychology. She completed her career serving as the Executive Officer of Navy Operational Support Center (NOSC) Baltimore. Catherine retired with the rank of Lieutenant Commander (O-4) and is currently teaching in the Masters of Industrial/Organizational Psychology program for Argosy University Online. Catherine lives with her two daughters and one son in Annapolis, MD.

AW: You flew the H-3 helicopter off of five different aircraft carriers during your time at HC-16. How long were you aboard the carriers typically and what was your primary mission?

CG: We stayed aboard anywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months and provided SAR (Search and Rescue) support for jet pilots earning their carrier landing quals. We also helped with hurricane evacuations among other things.

AW: You and your roommate, a USNA ’88 grad, were the first two female pilots stationed aboard the aircraft carrier USS Kitty Hawk. Any sea stories you’d like to relate from that time?

CG: Well, they used to post Marine Corps guards outside our stateroom doors. This was the case on several of the aircraft carriers in the early days. It made my roommate and me uncomfortable because they could hear us moving around the room and talking, so we would order them to leave. Usually, their superiors would send them back, but after several days of back and forth and me reminding them that I outranked their boss, they would finally relent and leave us alone.

AW: You are featured in Linda Maloney’s book, Military Fly Moms. In it, you relate a story that happened on a different aircraft carrier when you called the ship’s weather forecasters for a weather briefing for your flight.

CG: (Laughs). Yeah, I called for a weather briefing, the sailor on the other end of the line laughed, asked me

how I had gotten his number and who had put me up to this. He then stated there were no women aboard the ship before hanging up on me! This was long before the days of cell phones, so I had to be on the ship to call him in his office!

AW: Any other funny carrier moments?

CG: I guess this wasn’t exactly funny for him, but a junior petty officer rounded a corner in the passageway near my stateroom on the Kitty Hawk and obviously wasn’t expecting to see a woman standing there. He just stared—gawking—and while his head was turned, ran straight into the bulkhead.

AW: I guess you were definitely a novelty! Which leads me to your time with HMT-303. You were the first female pilot to be stationed with a Marine Corps squadron, flying Hueys out of Camp Pendleton. I was lucky to have you as an instructor when I transitioned to H-1’s, but how were you received there?

CG: You know, I think you were the only other female I saw come through HMT-303 while I was there. But I would say it was more awkward than my time in Navy squadrons. I was just trying to fit in, but it seemed I was always getting a lot of attention with the base newspaper or the base TV station. It made me stand out when I just wanted to be one of the guys.

AW: Speaking of Marine Corps aviation, can you relate the story about chopping through the halls as a plebe and what you were not allowed to say? [As a plebe, or freshman, at the Naval Academy, you are not allowed to walk in the dormitory hallways—you have to jog, eyes straight ahead. It’s called chopping. And whenever you turn a corner, like to turn down a hallway from the main corridor, you must yell something motivational like “Go Navy!” or “Beat Army!”]

CG: My second classman stopped me in the hall because I had just yelled “Fly Marine Corps, Sir!” He informed me that I couldn't say that since women weren't allowed to fly in the Marine Corps. Ironic, huh?

AW: Love that story. So had you always wanted to go to the Naval Academy?

CG:  I did. I grew up in Annapolis and I was in middle school when the first women were admitted there. I thought how cool it would be to go to sea and travel the world.

AW: Had you always wanted to be a pilot?

CG: No, actually, I was intending to go Surface Warfare, but my roommates at Navy talked me out of it.

AW: Good decision?

CG: Yeah, I loved it, but I will say that throughout my career, I was usually the only female pilot in my squadron. I had the other female pilot in HC-16, and then you came and went at HMT-303, but most often, I was the only one. But, yeah, it was great.